Session+Four

= __**SESSION FOUR: REFLECTION ON FEEDBACK AND ASSESSMENT**__ =

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As you think back to your previous facilitation experience, describe one challenge you have faced in terms of providing appropriate feedback or in assessing the learning of your participants. Read over the challenges posted by your fellow colleagues and suggest strategies for addressing these challenges in future courses.=====

Sandy...that is a very good point that at least we are giving them something to think about. I was just thinking in terms of assessment of the learner. Stephanie
 * ~ Challenges ||~ Strategies ||
 * //Use the rows in this column to describe challenges you have faced with feedback and/or assessment.// || //Use the rows in this column to suggest strategies for the challenges posted by others.// ||
 * One challenge that has come to mind with each course that I facilitate is that participants can "meet" the requirement and leave it at that. For example, if the facilitator were to ask open ended questions to deepen understanding or as a formative assessment and the participant doesn't respond, but they have met the requirement to do the initial posting and respond to at least 2 others, what can we (facilitator) do about that? They don't really even have to respond to your question because as long as the requirement is met, they get a "complete" in the gradebook. This is a different way of thinking in regards to teaching....we don't allow our students to do this! So, I guess my question/issue is....do we have options on this or is the extent of learning in the hands of the learner? Stephanie || We do set expectations for our students and if they meet them they receive the appropriate credit for their work. We ask questions in our classes all the them time and not every child responds. So I guess as long as they are meeting the requirements I don't worry too much if they don't respond to additional questions. You are giving the class something to think about even if they don't respond. Sandy

I know sometimes we are disappointed with the participants who just "meet the requirement." However, we need to remember we are working with adult learners who are juggling work, families and life. Sometimes, we have to hope that they will go back and reread and catch up on their own to truly extend their experience. A few times this has been the case for me personally. ~ Melissa

Stephanie--your question seems to indicate that there is some qustions as to whether the participant has really met the requirment of the discussion response. Simpy posting a response does not mean the participant has met the expectations. ~Donna

I think we need to probably provide some examples to what kind of repsonses we want and don't want - just to clarify what is a meaningful response. Sara That sounds like a good idea-I like the example and non-example idea. Models always help in teaching and learning. -Claudia

Models are good as long as participants realize that the models are examples and that they need to go beyond the examples to create. JoAnn

I think we as facilitators need to be consistent. I do not think making x number of posts means meeting the standard. Perhaps we need to express that is a facilitator asks a participant to elaborate, then they have NOT met the standard. ||
 * My challenge is with feedback on course projects. There have been times when participants have submitted subpar work including but not limited to: grammatical errors, incomplete sentences, misspellings, incomplete thoughts. I try to prompt them to go back and review their writings and many fix them but some still do not. I'm not sure if they don't know how to write better or if they are just lazy. Anyone else have this issue? (Tish)

Since I taught English for 29 years before going to the BOE, I really notice work that is not proofed, especially in the Discussion Board! I actually do ask participants to re-read work and then do some editing. I think so many times we don't realize that what we put on paper really tells alot about us as human beings. Pride --- we need to take pride in all that we do whether we are facilitating a course or being a participant in one. JoAnn

That is exactly what my concern is. Even when I have sent the project back for improvements and they still aren't made I feel like I've cheated all of us and the other participants by passing them because they, technically, have met the qualifications of the rubric. (Jane)

I agree with Tish and Jane. As a former English teacher, it drives me crazy to read some of the poor work I receive from educators. I realize that all of us occasionally misspell a word, etc., but some posts and projects are full of errors. Also, I once received a math project in a Reading First course. The participant had to re-submit with a project dealing with reading. Now, I always state in my orientation letter, "The final project must deal with reading, etc. and must be written in your own words--no internet projects." Carolyn || This is worrisome if our participants are teachers! I would chalk it up to how they prioritize things in their day to day life. After a long day at work, maybe they just can't bring themselves to give it 100%, which is sad. I would like to think they can write well, but that they are just tired or unmotivated. I wonder also if it is because they don't have internet access all the time and so they have to rush their work when they do get access. It makes me wonder if we should rethink the Complete/Incomplete grading system.That might be opening Pandora's box though! -Ambe r

Maybe answering our own concern is to stiffen the rubric to include more characteristics about the quality. Maybe if we had a mid course self assessment or final self assessment addressing the DOK levels of the project, we might make a little clearer the expectations of the project having some depth which would come clear to them during the self assessment.(Jane)

​ Tish Strange that you should post that thought. I know I have come across those border line cases - but I actually came across one - where a participant handed in a project that was lame - and actually totally off base. I never thought I would have to do this to a teacher participant - and I will state that I got Donna's approval on this first - but I refused to take it. I sent him an email - politely but firmly telling him what was wrong and why I couldn't accept it. I gave him a two week dead line to resubmit or I would have to fail him for the class. It was one of the hardest things I ever did as a facilitator. Gilda

Everyone--this is an important discussion. If a project is sub-par it needs to be revised. I will support your communicating this information to course participants. A sub-par project should not be accepted. ~Donna

I agree. It is difficult to let the participant know, but I have had to send a few back with further instructions if they wanted to complete the course. One of the participants was really not very happy about it, but I always explain that WVU and Marshall keep tabs on the courses and we must adher to the rigor of graduate courses. Jackie

Good for you! I am sure it was hard to do but on the other hand we would hope this participant would expect his own students to meet his expectations! (Tish)

I think it might be different if the grade was not pass and fail. Having only 2 options of the grading makes it hard. Julie ||
 * I guess my issue is sending emails and not getting a response. You try to communicate with someone and you can't be sure if they are ignoring you or if they are having a technical issue. I have had both situations come up in classes I've facilitated. One person just decided not to continue to work on the class and didn't bother to tell me or ask to be dropped. I called her to find out what was going on. And I had a student who didn't turn in a project at mid-course check time. I sent a couple of emails and didn't hear from her. It turns out she didn't have internet at home and her school was having internet issues so she didn't have access to the class or her emails until the problems were resolved. Sandy

This is one of the problems that I have had. I had one participant not respond to anything by email, but posted to discussion. They did not post a mid-course actifity, but posted the final project. Of course, I had to tell them that the things they did not do were part of the course requirements. They thought it was foolish to go back and do the activities, but I reposted the course requirements through a news item and then to them through email again. The person finally did the missing assignmens so that they could get the credit. sara || Sandy...I, too, have run into this problem. Some participants just don't check their email regularly. I have posted a general kind of comment in the discussion area or news item regarding the content of the email and just made it a genereal statement for all...that seemed to be effective. Stephanie

I have had these same problems. I have done as Stephanie mentioned and I also provide my home phone number and stress that it is to be called in emergency situations. This has helped a participant once who was new and was having some difficulties understanding what to complete. I like to also check to see if participants have accessed the course even if they aren't posting to the discussion board. (Tish)

I had to call once and that helped to clear items up. ~ Melissa

I've also called people, both at home and at school. One time when I called at school, the principal answered the phone (it was during those beginning or ending days of school), so I left a message for my participant to get in touch with me because she hadn't actually completed the course. She contacted me immediately. Pam

Julie

​In a few cases where the participant's information was not added ot the profile we have dropped in a News Item asking for specific participants ot contact the facilitator. ~Donna

Thanks for the idea, especially if you have tried several other ways to contact them! Just a simple note would do the job! ~ Melissa

I have looked for the person online on the WVDE site, but since they changed it, you can no longer find people by name, only by school. Jackie

I think phone calls could help. I also think I should have posted checklists each session, rather than a couple of times. sara ||
 * I have just co-facilitated one course, so I would say a challenge I had was trying to get more out of the participants in the discussion thread. I would often write a little sum up of what they said, then ask a question about it, trying to take it to the next level. Often times, the participants worked with my question and made it to that higher plane that I was aiming for, but not always though. -Amber || And it was probably the ones who were already giving you good answers that accepted your "challenge." I think some participants are not involved for self motivated learning, but to get hours or access to some nice materials. I figure that is just a vice we will have to deal with. I did find that a model of good responses they received during the orientation and first session helped get more depth. Maybe we can talk about DOK of responses as well as CSOs. (Jane)

I like how you dealt with this. As Jane said, the ones who replied regularly were probably the ones that took on your challenge. However, you would get higher-order responses. Sara

I have had the participate who never goes back to read my comments so never responds. (Mary) || ~ Melissa
 * So far the biggest problem I have had is the posting on time. When the participants do not post until late Tuesday night, it does not give the others a chance to read the original post which is a requirement.

Melissa - I hope you don't mind posting with yours - but the last course I facilitated I had the same problem. It turned out to be an issue - my class was split about 60 to 40 percent. The 60 % usually had their original post in by the weekend and then started responding to each other. The 40% usually didn't even make their original post until Tuesday evening - which frustrated the original group. They thought they were basically done - and then got this pile of posts late or Tuesday to try to go through.

Gilda

I think one of the most difficult problems is conveying the requirements of the projects to some of the participants. As I stated earlier, this is especially true with the PBL course because many of the participants cannot differentiate the project with any other kind of classroom project. I have had to go over the requirements numerous times with them, send them examples, give them ideas to revise their projects but there have been times when none of this was effective. They either didn't get it or chose not to get it. It sometimes is really, really, frustrating. That is why I think that the live chat that I will be using with this new upcoming session of PBL will be (hopefully) very effective in addressing this problem. I do have to tell you the most frustrating time I ever had as a facilitator. I had a participant who first off was late with her intial posts, (something like two weeks late) This was before the two weeks out rule. Well, I emailed her numerous times, of course, to get caught up and she finally logged into the Orientation discussion. The problem was she answered EVERY post, and she attached a picture to every one! I tried to email her over and over to let her know that when she clicks on them I know she read them and that no one was actually required to go back and respond to her posts. I encouraged her to just get in the current week's discussion and focus on it. It fell on deaf ears and she continued to keep posting and posting. I finally called her on the phone and got her straightened out. I thought I was going to lose my mind! I laugh about it now, but it was a rough first facilitation experience. Jackie || That is a tough one. In all the classes I've taken, I generally do most of my posting way before the deadline. In this course, however, I had waited until Tuesday to add to the first Wiki. Tuesday at school, I developed a killer headache and could manage only the group chat at 7 p.m.. After the chat, I went to bed and added to the Wiki the next day. Maybe we could tell our participants that once is understandable, but more than once is not acceptable. Ideally, students should do their first post before Friday, but sometimes that's not possible either. Often times, classroom teachers who are also parents don't catch their breath until the weekend. Pam

I like how our current course and facilitator ask that the original posting is made prior to the half way point of the session. If we ask this of participants up front, it might help them to maintain a more reasonable timeline. (Tish)

Trish, I have done this and it doesn't always help. (Mary)

We always need to keep in mind that the people who are taking these courses do have other responsibilities and a week can pass very quickly so I think we need to be reasonable in our expectations. It would be great if people could post earlier in the session but sometimes it just isn't possible and as long as they have met the Tuesday night deadline they should receive full credit. (I know that makes it difficult for others to read and respond to but I think we need to be a little flexible there too.) One of the wonderful things about an online course is being able to work when you have the time. Sandy

I have facilitated courses where almost nobody posts until the weekend. When I noticed this in one course, I sent an email saying that original posts had to be done by Saturday evening. That really helped get most of them in by that time, then people could respond through Tuesday. Not everyone complied, but I think that extra nudge at least got them going. Of course, there was nothing I could do if they didn't post by Saturday ...-Claudia

We had this discussion in the previous facilitator's course, and it was (I thought) still agreed that it was acceptable for posts to be on the last day because that is the guideline that is set for the courses. It still meets the guideline. I have been without Internet because of a neighbor's tree falling so I can relate!!! Jackie

I, too, usually work on the weekend because of so much going on with grandchildren in gymnastics, working late, etc. I have just accepted that some post late and send reminder e-mails if participants haven't read 50% of all posts. Jackie, the storm knocked out my internet also. Just got it back on Wed. Felt really helpless about the class, but feel more understanding to participahnts who have internet problems. Carolyn || ~Donna I like a statement that I can point to and say, "This is the requirement-it is not up to me." Then we would all be on the same page and participants who take other courses would have a consistent set of rules to follow. -Claudia || Julie || Julie--set a time limit of one week for the work to be completed w2hen communicating with the participant(s). ~Donna
 * I'm often frustrated with the mid-course check. For my class, they have to write a proposal about their final project. I explain specific areas that they are to cover in the proposal; then, I provide feedback to them about how to add to their strategies and even offer links that could give them more resources. Some participants never file their proposal until the very end, despite my emails and discussion board/news postings. They do the final project and THEN do their proposals. Unfortunately, their projects aren't as good as they could have been if they'd let me offer them feedback. I give them an incomplete in the grade book, paired with a message about what they should do to receive a complete. Pam || Pam--let's think about this. Perhaps we should require the mid-course check that is not posted the week it is due to have one week thereafter to be completed for a satissfacotry grade to be awarded for the course. This means that if the mid-course check is due in Session 3 and it is not turned in that week the participant has until the end of Session 4 to turn in the assignment. If the assignment is not turned in by the conclusion of Session 4 the course grade will be recorded as an Unsatisfactory grade.Both MU and WVU have grades set to be S or U.
 * I have problems with posting during before the due date. I don't know how many times I would have to email the person to let them know they didn't do that section. I would have all the grades updated and have to go back after they finish. There were times I would wait to update the grades because I didn't want to go back and do one person's that didn't do the assignment on time.

I was wondering how long to wait on a participant. Thanks Donna for the info - one week! ~ Melissa ||
 * My challenge has been getting participates to read their feedback and fix their final project which as been mentioned on this forum by several people. I also agree with Julie. It is frustrating to wait on people who are late with their assignments. I always wonder if they would allow their students to do that. Unlike Julie, I go ahead and post an I because I've found that sometimes that spurs participates to act. (Mary) || I post an I as well. I used to wait, but decided it was unfair to those who turned it in on time. I also figured a couple of features in the gradebook that I wasn't using so I realized it is easier than I thought to put the grades in. I agree that the I spurred some of those laggers on. -Claudia ||
 * I get frustrated with people who apparently have dropped the course and haven't bothered to tell me. They tool along for the first couple of sessions, then disappear. Or some go through the whole thing, then don't turn in the final project. It causes me to have to email, post items in the news, etc. I really have to call-I have had participants call me when they are confused, but I haven't called to find a MIA participant. I should because it would probably end my frustration. I think I will also send a separate email with FAQs-one of which being, "What if I can no longer continue?" -Claudia || That's a good idea to send an email with FAQs concerning an exit strategy. I wonder if there are participants who have joined and then drifted away from more than one course at different times. Do participants sign up for two courses and keep the one that suits them better? People do the same thing in college. They sign up for more classes than they intend to keep so that they can drop a class or two with too much work. Some college students do that every semester. Pam

If it is in the beginning of the course, I give the participant a deadline to contact me and then if I hear nothing, I drop them and put a note that says why I dropped them in case there is ever a problem. That way Donna also knows what has happened. And I agree it is very frustrating and time consuming! (Tish)

I agree that is a frustration. I even email them sometimes and let them know others are waiting to fill the course if they are not planning to participate. It doesn't help even. I don't think we are ever going to fix that lack of responsibility unless there is a consequence for those who start a course and disappear without any message or explanation. Jackie || Remember-even though they are posting later, they are still reading everyone else's posts and learning from that. I think learning is taking place from reading the posts, even though they may post later. Just like in a classroom some students participate more than others.Students learn in different ways. Sally ||
 * What bothers me more than anything is late postings. When participants post late, they don't get the same feedback that the other participants receive and they in turn then miss out on some good discussion threads. I have asked and reminded in my weekly emails to please post early so everyone has a change to respond and to read as many posts as possible. For some reason the late posters never get the message. Any ideas?? JoAnn || I'm sure you have done this, but I email the person and ask that his/her postings be completed by Monday night in order for other participants to have the opportunity to comment on their postings. In some cases, the "nudge" has worked and in other cases, it hasn't worked. Your concern is the same as in the classroom with the un-motivated student. ||
 * // Like others I feel assessment is on the light side in the courses. Some participants will always just get by with the least amount of work possible – Read just 50 % and post only a few comments. I know I am guilty of weeks when I am near the minimum. This has to do with a heavy work load. Weeks when I am working hard everyday, skip lunch, inhale dinner and still working till 11:00 at night because all the obligations are just not met. Nanette // || I agree with Melissa that we need to remember that participants are adult learners who have a demanding schedules. But in the other side - if a participant signed up for a college class at a campus location they would have to be present in their class and be prompt and complete with their assignments. Maybe there needs to be more than pass or fail, give levels of completion. Nanette
 * ​ I think the hardest thing with assessment with online classes is assessing the learning as we go.(each week) In a classroom, if someone is not talking but I can see their expression or their reactions to know that they understand a concept. With an online class we have to depend on the discussion board-but sometimes the question in the discussion does not really cover indepth the learning that has taken place from the readings/projects/assignments . Sally || If you have a small number of participants, it is a lot easier to keep track of who is "getting what". However, when you have 25-30 participants, it is nearly impossible to keep a "mental" note of who is understanding the content. I try to keep a spreadsheet with a minimal amount of notes on each participant, but it becomes overwhelming at times. ||
 * The challenge I face is the final project. Some participants submit the final project on the very last day (even after being reminded and encouraged several times to submit it early in the week). When I provide feedback, many participants never respond and/or never make the needed corrections. Should I be marking it incomplete? Irene || I look forward to the response here. What do you do? ~ Melissa

Donna stated earlier that if a project is subpar then it should not be accepted. I take that to mean you should give them an Incomplete with a note in the gradebook as to why. I email individual participants with a deadline of about one week after the course ends to have everything completed. I have never had someone not make corrections though. (Tish) ||
 * As someone who is going to be facilitating for the first time, I want to make certain I interact enough to be a good facilitator, but not overly involved that I direct the conversation. Also, is there a standard if I ask them to elaborate and consistently do not get answers (what is meets the standard)? Shawn ||  ||